How to Declutter Your Life and Your Business

Transcription

[0:17] Ian:
Welcome to episode 196 of the Confident Live Marketing Podcast.

[0:22] Lesley:
So decluttering is very emotionally led. It's all about the emotions that we have and what we feel. It's about that emotional connection to the stuff that we have.

And we need to understand what those emotions are. And we need to build up, from the more simple emotions through to the more complex ones.

[0:38] Ian:
So do you feel like your life, business and everything is a bit of a mess? How do you declutter your life, your business, and everything? In this episode, we're joined by professional declutterer, Lesley Spellman. We'll discuss how you can organize and declutter your working environment, so you can focus on being more productive and growing your business.

Let's go on with it... right now!

Well, hello, hello, hello! Welcome to episode 196 of the Confident Live Marketing Show. We're talking about organization and decluttering today. This is the first live show of the new year. If you're listening to the podcast, you've listened to a few in the new year, so far, And if you haven't come across the podcast, do go to iag.me/podcast. We're coming up to episode 200 and we've got a really exciting few weeks ahead because well, we're going to do a special 200th episode, more information about that in the future.

But it is time to bring in my special guest of today, who is Lesley Spellman, who is one half Of Of the Declutter Club. She and her partner the Ingrid Jansen are two professional organizers and declutterers from the UK who pride themselves on promoting a fun and enjoyable decluttering journey with realism at the core. Ingrid helps clients one-to-one in London as Organise Your House, and Lesley is in the North West as the Clutter Fairy.

As two great friends with a like-minded approach to decluttering, they joined forces as the Declutter Hub to bring their expertise to a global audience in the online world. Their highly successful Declutter Hub podcast, do check them out, is much loved with hundreds of thousands of downloads worldwide.

They also provide tailored support to people all over the world in their membership with a roadmap, step-by-step courses, regular Q&As and everything their members need to declutter and organize successfully, welcome to this show, Lesley. Great to have you here.

[3:06] Lesley:
Oh, thank you so much. I could not have said it better myself, Ian.

[3:10] Ian:
Oh, well thank you. Thank you. I managed to just about get there. It's great to have you here. We met back in October. So I was doing my Confident workshop so you attended that, but also you were, attending Courageous Content happening in Newcastle. So, that's how I met you and Ingrid. I was instantly happy excited, to find out that you were both declutterers because it's something I've been thinking about for a while. And I know my audience are interested in this or interested in digital organization, but I think they're also interested in decluttering their lives and their environment as well. So tell me how you got into decluttering, because I'm sure you haven't done this for the whole of your life. Tell me how you got into it?

[3:52] Lesley:
No, I mean, I haven't done it for all of my life. Basically about 15 years ago, I bought a house, a very derelict house, in Manchester, not very far around the corner from you, Ian. And it had been lived in by a hoarder. And by that, I mean somebody who was a clinical hoarder. So we're talking that about somebody who couldn't get into his front door, couldn't get on the stairs because there was so much stuff as somebody who clearly had a mental health issue. And the stuff that he had was stopping him from living the life that most of us would feel is normal. And so basically when I bought the house, the house it was completely empty. Somebody, they had spent nine months clearing the house, after this guy died. And what I found was that people were so excited because it had been an eye sore in the community, the house that I lived in. And people were so excited that this house that had been an eye sore for so long was being renovated and was looking all nice. But people were very, very judgmental about this guy and the that it had had the community.

And there seemed to be a real lack of understanding about his journey and his mental health issues. So that was the first thing that got me started about how people are judged very much for clutter or hoarding. And so, I started to look into the business of professional organizing. Up here in the North West it wasn't really a thing then. There weren't many of us around, and it was quite sort of groundbreaking to do it up in the North West. Starting my business back in 2009, and I've never looked back

[5:12] Ian:
Oh, that's awesome. Really interesting to hear that. I think what you said about people judging is, such a common thing. Do you think that it's often ourselves that are hard on ourselves?

I know this with me, I look around at my office at the moment and it is a mess. And I tend to beat myself up about that. I think, I can never get tidy. Do you think that's the big problem? As well as other people judging us. How about ourselves?

[5:35] Lesley:
Yeah, definitely. We definitely need to start with ourselves and we need to be kind to each other. So if we are starting on a decluttering journey, it's really important to kind of draw a line in in the sand and start over again. So we right at the start of a new year and whether we want New Year's resolutions or goals or whatever that is. It allows us to look at things with a fresh pair of eyes and get started again. And I think it all starts with saying, do you know what? I have not been great at this in the past, or last year wasn't a great year, but the only thing I can change, is I can change the now and I can change the future. And that's what it's all about.

So, be kind to yourself to know that you'll be much better at other things. Everybody's not good at everything. Some people are better at organizing, and decluttering and keeping a tidy home than others. And some people are much more creative and have got different things that they're fantastic at as well.

But decluttering and organizing can be learnt. Whoever you are and whatever circumstance you're in, it can be learnt. It just takes a little bit more time for some than it does to others.

[6:28] Ian:
Yeah, that's such an important thing. We, we can't be good at everything. And I think I've realized that there were certain things I'm really good at and some things that I'm not. And when it comes to like organization in around the house. I'm not always quite so good at that. And I was diagnosed with ADHD last year, which probably doesn't help.

But Lesley's going to share some tips with us so you don't have to feel overwhelmed or frustrated or anything like that. There is help available through what we're going to be talking about today. And of course, you might get to a point when you think, well, actually I just, I just need some help.

And of course this again, something that Lesley can help with. and so my question to you, Lesley is Why is being organized so essential and, why should we bother with decluttering?

[7:09] Lesley:
It's going to save you time, It's gonna save you emotional energy. It's going to save you wasting your valuable time on doing things to serve you well. It's just really important to be organized so that we can then move forward and do the things that we want to rather than things that we don't.

That's what it's all about really. We get very frustrated when we're disorganized and we just need to be able to move on from that. It all starts with decluttering. It moves into organization, and resets and keeping tidy. It's a big cycle to get to the point that we want to be, I guess. It definitely helps, definitely helps and once people go through that transition of spending the time getting to that place, then they really see that difference starts to unfold.

And it's about changing that mindset. We want to get to a stage where we don't want that clutter to come in in the first place as well. That also helps.

[7:57] Ian:
so a lot of my audience, work from home. They have a home office. And I know for me that if my mess, if my studio is a mess, I don't really want to go in here. And so I've found sometimes I'll just, I'll stay in bed and do a bit of work So I think having a really good environment, it just makes you more, it makes me more productive. It makes me enjoy my work. The environment, the emotion that comes from that, I think, is so important. What comes first? our life, or our stuff, you know, what comes first?

Should we think about ourselves first before we declutter? Or should it be the other way round?

[8:32] Lesley:
I think it's really important first before we even get started. I think what we need to do is a) we need to think of decluttering and organizing our lives and our homes as being a permanent thing.

And that's not something that people really want to hear that much. Because people want to think of that much more as a project rather than a process. So, we need to be in it for the long haul. We need to look at our why. So, what's our big picture goal? Why do we want to be better? So you've already i dentified Ian, that you want to be more productive at work.

That's really important to you to, to not let time hemorrhage away from you because you don't want to go into your office and you feel much more productive when the space that you're working in is much better. So, I think we need to think about our big picture goal. So, what is that? And if, if we're talking about a normal domestic arrangement, it you know, I've got a dumping ground of a spare bedroom and I'd love that to become a home office, that I can move out of my dining table for example. It might be, I've got a room, I'd love my grandchildren to come and stay over. And that's just not happening at the moment. So, they don't come. I'd love to be able to invite people in my home, but I'm in a crazy panic and every time someone says, "Oh, I'm just going to drop in five minutes", and you're like, "No, you can't do that." Be in cause I'm just not ready. And so different people have got different reasons why they want that to happen. And it's important to work out your why, because that's going to be the thing that motivates you forward to make progress, and to help you to create smaller goals that are much more about action.

[9:55] Ian:
I think the smaller goals thing is really important because I tend to think big and I just want to blitz. I want to do everything now. And it's just not going to happen. You got to start small.

So how do we get started? we've worked at our why We know that we want to put some order into our lives. We want to declutter, we want to become more productive. It does seem overwhelming. that that's why I've never started, So how do we get started with all of this if we are wanting to declutter and become more organized?

[10:23] Lesley:
What I'd like to do in this is I'd like about how to get started first rather than how to to Yeah,

[10:27] Ian:
I do.

[10:28] Lesley:
because this is a mistake that a lot of people make. when we think about the clutter in our homes, our minds automatically take us to some of the most difficult places. So if we've got a room of doom in our house, and we all have something, or a cupboard or a room. And we know where that is, our garage, our loft, our spare bedroom. It takes us to that place because that's the thing that bothers us the most. It might be if we're nervous about decluttering, we're like, "Oh, you're not touching my DVD collection", for example, that somebody might have said to you, "Oh, that's just clutter, you need to get rid of It."

And so, we automatically go to the most difficult place in our minds. And what we need to do is we need to start with the simple stuff first. So decluttering is very emotionally led. It's all about the emotions that we have, and what we feel. It's about that emotional connection to the stuff that we have.

And we need to understand what those emotions are. And we need to build up from the more simple emotions through to the more complex ones. So, it's not difficult to work out whether something is going to be, useful, whether we need it. But it is difficult to work out whether we're ready to part with something from someone that we've lost, for example. So that range of emotions is complex. It's big, and we need to start with the simple stuff first and then build our way up to the difficult stuff. But what a lot of people do is jump straight into the most cluttered room, the most difficult area.

The thing what we feel has got the most clutter in it, or the sentimental stuff, or the photographs or the wires, for example, if it's a business. And so we automatically go to the difficult things first, and what We need to do is, Start with the simple stuff, start to make progress and then we go, okay, that wasn't too bad. I'm happy to do another 10 or 15 minutes and do another area. And then we build it up that way and all the while, while we're going through this. We are making progress and we are feeling that success, which spurs us on and motivates us on forward. So, break it right down into something that is small and start with the less emotional stuff first.

[12:19] Ian:
That's . Such a good tip because, emotion is such a big part of these things. Things like photographs. I'm awful at, at chucking birthday cards and anything to do with kids and anything like that. , It's just, "don't start with that!"

For me, I'm focusing just initially on my studio, my office. And I think for me, that's really helpful. I know it's not necessarily the simplest part. But I think what you're saying is, is so true that if we focus on maybe the slightly easier stuff, that's going to make us feel a lot happier in ourselves because we've actually achieved something.

So would you say it's that, that side of things.

[12:55] Lesley:
Yeah. definitely. It's It's all about achieving something. A home office is a little bit more complex Ian because there isn't actually a little bit more complex Ian because there isn't actually that much in it, that big range of emotions. You've just got to work through things one category at a time. One of the easiest places to start actually in a home office is quite often if we've had a room with stationery in it for years and years. We've got stationery that we have amassed from. You know, somehow we get that stationery from places that we have worked and we might have five staplers, loads of boxes of staples and we might have little drawing pins that we've never used and we don't really use that much stationery at all anymore.

But we still have big amounts of stationery in our drawers because we think, oh, that's going to come in, you know, it seems wrong to throw it away. Even though you know deep down that it doesn't fit into your current life. And that's what we're trying to create here. We're trying to create things around us that serve as our current lifestyle.

And when it comes to things like stationery, which is a good example, we cling onto things from the past, thinking that they're going to come in, but thinking that it's a waste to get rid of it. When actually, we've moved on from that. We've all moved on from those kind of stationery items that we got back in the nineties from offices that we worked in.

[14:06] Ian:
That's really interesting. I actually get quite anxious. I, I don't know whether anyone else watching feels like this. I'm sure I'm not alone. And I know my wife Helen feels like this. Whenever we get post through the door, we get anxious. I think, well, where do we file that? is it going to go into the, box of doom, never to be seen again! So when it comes to paperwork, have you got some tips on how we can manage that? Because I know I'm not alone here. We get stuff through the door. And then because we live in this so much of a digital world now, how do we kind of organize our post and our mail through the door?

[14:36] Lesley:
I think it's really important. So again, again, as with, you know, you were talking about how to do things before and we definitely need to declutter first. then organize and then do something called "resets" later. So, we need to declutter what we don't need. And again, it's about that fitting into our current life.

So we need to look at what we've got. So I'm going to talk about domestic paperwork here rather than business paperwork, which is a little bit more open-ended really, and only you know what you need to keep. In a domestic environment, there's very, very little that we actually need to keep. But then we've got something called our comfort zone, which is, okay, I know in principle that I can get rid of all of my bank statements because I no longer need them. I can find them if I need to from my bank. I've got an app, all of these things. But some people still find it very difficult to make that mental leap from keeping four years of bank statements, 10 years of bank statements in some instances or utility bills or whatever that might be, and go to none. And so sometimes we have to think about a phased approach to those kind of things and say, okay, I feel I had five years before. I feel comfortable to go down to six months. Let's see how I go. And then in six months, I might make a different decision. I might go paperless. And so it's all about gathering like with like with paperwork, looking at what you've got in those. Those, the depths of the filing cabinet or in those lever arch files, going through them and thinking, I really don't need that anymore. Letting go, trying to challenge your comfort zone a little bit that you've lived with for many years. Letting that go and then reorganizing and keeping digitizing however you want to do that, and finding a great filing system for the stuff that you're keeping. But it is all about categorization and decluttering when it comes to paperwork.

[16:15] Ian:
Business growth ready says inch by inch. Makes it a cinch (kind of), yard by yard are more hard.

[16:21] Lesley:
Yes. Love that.

[16:23] Ian:
Love that one too. And Paul says (The Grammar Detective), he says, for 10 years teaching English at a language school, I'd inadvertently bring home a pocket full of paper clips every day. and, Nicola says the Declutter Hub membership have a fantastic paperwork course, which has helped me so much. I had stuff back to 1983. Now, only have a couple of years.

So let's talk about organization. How important is digital organization? For me, I find digital organization a lot easier for some reason than the physical stuff. It's a lot easier to create a folder and put stuff into that, but I still know I've got a long way to go to make my digital life organized. so what are your thoughts on that?

[17:03] Lesley:
Whether it's digital or whether it's, physical stuff. We need to create a structure. We need to find a framework that's going to work for us. And so, you know, if we're talking about paperwork, obviously a lot physical systems, actual paperwork that mirrors the digital system as well.

So we can think about what those categories are. And I think that the categories relate to you. So for some people, NatWest might work for other people, bank might work, or savings account might work. And so you have to find categories and labeling that's going to work and make sense to you. It's all about that logic when it comes to paperwork. And so I think that is just as important, particularly leaving our digital footprint everywhere. People find it not as worrying unless it's kind of like, I've got 30,000 emails or 30,000 notifications, which are sitting there blinking at you. Once it goes into a kind of email folder, then people kind of almost think that it's gone, but it's still sitting there and that's going to take some time. It's. Quicker to deal with. It's less emotional as well. Digital, There are not many emotions attached with and so I think that's why people find that process much simpler. When we're working with people who need to declutter their whole lives, then digital comes much lighter down the path. Because it's important to tackle the physical stuff that's the stuff that's really bothering most people.

[18:23] Ian:
Oh, that's really interesting. And I think I kind of thought that was the case. but I think because I find digital organizations so much easier, I've focused on that Because that's the, thing that I've been able to do that I know I can do. do you think that our digital organization should mirror our physical organization?

So, for example, if we've got places to put our, actual paperwork, should we of mirror that in folders on our computer, or is that unnecessary? Am I making things too complicated there?

[18:49] Lesley:
At the end of the day, when you're thinking about a folder structure, You thought about something that's logical to you. And so it makes sense then to mirror that in a digital way, but it's not always possible because things are different.

And particularly in a work context, we've got a completely separate sort of category of things, haven't we? We don't typically have those things in a physical space. We just have digital stuff. But we know what kind of categories are going to make us tick, and they're going to make things easy for us, and whether we can work with subfolders. And everybody works in a very different way, Ian.

And so there's no one size fits all It's just about having a structure that is logical, sensible, and simple for you to use, that you are working, that you are going through on a regular basis to try and look at. So I'm not saying that I'm looking at my email folder structure all the time far from it. I've probably got 20, 30, 30,000 emails, but they're all filed in an appropriate place. Whether or not that's 100% necessary, some people would say well, you can just click on search, and that's much easier. but I think for me, having it in that folder structure definitely works. And so, , it bothers me to have loose ends everywhere in the same way that it bothers me to have physical clutter around. And so I prefer to have a place for everything and everything in its place, whether that's digital or whether that's physical.

And that's what It's all about. It's about decluttering what you don't need. And then when we get to the organizational side of things, it's like, right, where is the best place for this that I can find it if I need it? That makes logical sense to me and to the rest of the family. So it is not just about what makes logical sense to you, it has to be something that makes sense to anybody who's going to use that system.

So if that's a home and there are multiple people in your home, you need to find a system that's going to work for everybody. And of course, that system is going to evolve. And so if you've got young children at home, you're going need things in your hallway to grab as you're on the way out to school.

Whereas that system is going to be very different for a retired couple. So systems evolve over the years that that's one of the things we get stuck with Systems that we created in our twenties and thirties, and we get into our forties, fifties, and sixties, and we're still trying to work with the same systems and not moving on with the times and with the fact that our life completely changed.

[21:00] Ian:
it's very much a personal thing I got somebody on Facebook, so I can't see who you are. If you are watching on Facebook I just started building my second brain for organizing.

Learned about it from Erik Fisher. And that's an interesting one. That's from the, from Tiago Forte. Forte. that's something that I follow. This is a way of getting all the ideas from my head onto somewhere that can I. because I'm al I'm very forgetful to putting it down either on a calendar in, a, an app like Notion or something like that. I think that's really useful. But I want to go back to, the idea of physically because I think that is really important for our, peace of mind.

And, if we are trying to do this ourselves, and we've picked a room. Where should we start within that room? Do we need to think about, boxes or, organizations?

You, you mentioned there were different stages. I can't remember what you said now, but you start with decluttering and then you go onto the next stage and then the next stage. Maybe you can go through those for us.

[21:54] Lesley:
Yeah. So first of all, if we were starting to physically, declutter a room. Let's not think it as a whole room. And first let's start to break it down by drawer, by cupboard, space. And, and there's no right or wrong way of doing that, but just choose the most overwhelming part of that room as the first thing that you do. And so I think that's really important. you definitely need to have all your tools at hand. So you need to have bin bags, you need to have boxes for sorting things like with like.

And sometimes if we've got a very full cluttered space, we don't have a lot of spare boxes. I use collapsible crates, which are fantastic. And I can kind of gather like with like. So if sometimes if a room's completely in disarray, and this might be where, if you're talking about your home office in particular, Ian, that's where those definitely are. We need to kind of gather like with like, right? Okay, so this is all the business paperwork that needs to go back to the office. I'm going to put that into one crate. Here's all my stationery, here's all my paper supplies, that needs to go back here's all my tech stuff, here's all my camera stuff. For example, we can start to gather like with like, and it's only once we start to gather things together, we can look at the volumes of stuff that we've got and think, actually, I don't need seven microphones. I mean, you might argue this, Ian, to be fair, that's just example that came to mind. I don't need all that stuff, and some of that can go. And so we need to kind of confront ourselves with the reality of what we've got sometimes before we can make a decision. And at that point we start choosing the ones that are serving us better, that we like better, that we connect better with him more, emotionally or something like that. Start with the tools that you need the boxes to sort things into the bin bags, to sort things out to.

If we were talk about a normal decluttering a normal room, I use different bin bags for different things so you can keep control of the process. And so I would use black for trash and I use Clear bags for charity. So I know that that's going to the charity, shop. And I use, green bags for things that I'm going to give away to other people, for example. I think really important for you to keep control of it. And if we just have five different black bin liners, sometimes we're like, "Oh, was that for the charity shop or was I throwing that away?"

Then we don't feel in control of the process. And then that's where it it starts to break down. So I think declutter first, gather, like with like, decide what's going to go at that point. Get your bags ready for donation and then start to put things back into a system of organisation that's going to work for you.

[24:14] Ian:
That's really helpful. So, I'm going to be totally honest. next week. I'm very excited about this. So I was speaking with Lesley a couple of months back and I was saying, Lesley I need help. And, this is something that you do, you know, you uh, have a business where you have professional declutters that go around to people's houses.

And next week is my turn. So, somebody from your company. is coming out It's going to help me with my office. We're going to focus on this first. And you mentioned like you might not need seven microphones. This is kind of part of my problem because what I like I do a lot is I review tech. So companies will send me out microphones and mixes and stuff. So I do have probably about 10 microphones. And do I need all of them? Do I use all of them on a regular basis? No, I don't. I mean, I just use this microphone, but I might need to review some of those. So finding a system that's going to work for me is going to be interesting.

So, that's really helpful. Bin sacks and boxes, and I think this is something that I'm going to be doing before next week. Because in the decluttering stage, to it's got to go somewhere. So, Maybe we've got to the point and you think, this all sounds amazing, but to be honest, I feel overwhelmed - it's just too much.

This is something that I don't think I can do myself, and that is totally me. I know. these tips that you are giving me, Lesley and giving us are amazing, but maybe you are in a situation where You just can't do it yourself. You're overwhelmed. First of all, how common is that with your clients, and what is the next step?

Is it a case of hiring a professional declutter?

[25:43] Lesley:
It is a really interesting question actually, Ian, because we've been doing this and so there are about 400 professional organizers in the uk. This is a very, very growing industry and in the same way that people didn't have a personal trainer 15 years ago, People didn't have a, professional organizer. but Now they do. People are going, I need that in my life." And it's all about that extra level of accountability. And so you might start, you might struggle with the process, you might struggle with your motivation. And so what we do is the first thing that you'll be asked is what is your why?

What's your vision for this? How do you want to create it? And then a system will kind of unfold. And so for example, those 10 microphones. So for me it would be right. Okay. So which is your standard microphone that you're using, which is obviously in use anyway, which is your next one, which would be your kind of backup microphone, that needs to be close at hand, And then if we've got microphones for review, that might come in later that you might want it.

That's a completely separate category of things than the microphone that you're using on a day-to-day basis that needs a different home. And so the system that a professional organizes it, they won't create a system for you. They won't make any decisions about what's going to go. They will be listening to you and what your needs are, what your family situation is, and they will be trying to create a system that works for you.

They'll think about ADHD thrown into the mix as well, which means that we have to think more strongly about labeling and things like that as well. That's going to work. I'm going to you know, all of those things to make it easier for you to find what you need. So a professional organizer is a fantastic thing to have, to give you accountability, to give you empowerment.

There's something very empowering about somebody standing next to you saying, "Okay, now's the time to make a decision about this." Not in a, in a pressuring way, but in a way, do you want to make that decision now or not? And the decision might be, I'm not ready to, I'm not ready to let that go. And then it would be a keep.

But somehow there's something about someone standing next to you. saying that decision needs to be made now, which is very empowering and it makes people make decisions And so, so often we get people going, why can I not do this on my own? Like, it's so easy when you are standing next to me because it's in your diary. It's something that you're committed to. It's a little bit easier because there are two people, so there's a little bit of camaraderie in there as well. So it's not quite as boring and daunting as doing it on your own. So for somebody that really has felt overwhelmed for a number of years, a professional organizer is a great thing to have in your home.

Of course, we've gone to the next stage with the Declutter Hub as well. So I have the Clutter Fairy which is my business in the North West which Ian is, working with next week. We also have the Declutter Hub, which is, our online business where we teach people what we have learned, what we have learned as professional organizers online.

And so we have a weekly podcast that you talked about, and we teach people online. We have an online membership, so that's where people don't feel comfortable to have someone in their home or can't afford the outlay, but still want to do it and want to learn how, you know, and we obviously, we have tools and tips and techniques and all of the things that you need.

To empower you to do it on your own. And there's something about a community you need. and accountability and we, we use all of the different tools to get you there. So there's different ways, but if you are struggling, life's too short to be overwhelmed by clutter. And to sort that out can be life changing.

[28:55] Ian:
As you know, I'm, I'm totally won over by this I think when it comes to everything on our business, you know, we tend to focus mainly on business, on, on this, on this show. If you are struggling with something, get some help. It might be hiring a coach, hiring a consultant. If you're struggling with getting fit, this is something that I've done. I've hired a personal trainer and I have to admit, in the past I would feel guilty about this because it feels like I'm giving up and it's ridiculous. The new Ian thinks that's ridiculous, but the old Ian was guilty about that. And I think the old Ian would be guilty about hiring a declutterer as well. I'm so glad that I don't think like that anymore. And I'm really excited about moving forward.

So, you obviously, if you need help, you can hire a professional declutterer somewhere depending on where you are in the world, what if, people live in the northwest, obviously they can, go to your website. Is It's clutterfairy is that right?

[29:47] Lesley:
Yeah, clutterfairy.co.uk

[29:49] Ian:
the

[29:50] Lesley:
cover the whole of the North West. and then, Yeah, we've got the Association of Professional Declutterers and Organisers which is the UK accredited organizers. So we all go have a code of ethics that we work towards. So if you want somebody who is accredited, has gone through training, there's APDO. So, go there.

There's NAPO in the states and there's loads of different organizations. But if you go to APDO, you will find all of the other , international organizations as well. And if, wherever you are in the world, of course, we have the Declutter Hub which is a paid membership. And we have the Declutter Hub podcast, which is a free weekly podcast. And so There are loads of help out there to try and inspire you. You know, some people c an do it on their own once they set their mind to it. But there are a whole load of people out there who have continuously struggled and just need to make that same mental leap that I have done when I've hired a personal trainer or somebody to help me with nutrition. I think life is just different now and we realize that there are some people out there that can get us to a better place more quickly, more efficiently, more effectively, and sometimes that is worth investing in. And I think that's kind of thing that you're talking about, Ian.

[30:54] Ian:
It is that investment, and Nicola is saying, you know, having that voice, is life changing. You are investing in yourself. So, so true. You might be able to get so far on your own, but one thing that I've realized, I want to get a lot further and I want to get there quicker. And you could argue that I'm being impatient, but as you say, life is short.

If you want to find out more about this. The Facebook group and can anyone join this, Lesley?

[31:17] Lesley:
Yeah, anyone could join the Facebook group. So, Facebook group is lively loads of different types of people that all inspire each other to declutter. So Facebook group absolutely all the information is there.

[31:28] Ian:
So, that is facebook.com/groups/declutterhubcommunity. Probably the easiest way, just get to Facebook and search for 'Declutter Hub community' and you can find that out. And of course, Lesley and Ingrid have got an amazing podcast, which I have subscribed to the Declutter Hub podcast, and you can find out more about that. It's declutterhub.com/the-podcast

So do check that out.

is there anything else, just briefly, that you would like to add to what we talked about today?

[31:59] Lesley:
I just think, just go for it. I think, you know, as I said, life's too short to, to have clutter in your lives and it really helps you save time, save energy, you know, feel better about yourself. Change that mindset We don't need all this excess in our life.

It's, it's important to look for the environment. There's 1,000,001 things where decluttering is never, ever a negative thing. It's always a positive thing, and it's something that if you set your mind to it, go slow. make sure that you don't go hell for leather but you, you see this as a long-term project and it really will. It can be life-changing.

[32:33] Ian:
Definitely. Well, I'm going to try and show the before and after and I'll explain. what my experience has been with all of this.

I'm, I'm very, very excited about it. thank you so much, Lesley How can people, you so much, Lesley How can people, follow you, stalk you in a nice way on, on the socials?

[32:48] Lesley:
Yeah, so the Facebook group that you've just mentioned, which is the Declutter Hub community, we are declutterhub on Instagram. We have a Facebook page, The Declutter Hub. We've got the podcast, which you've already spoken about.

[32:58] Ian:
Well, thank you so much, Lesley, it's been great to have you on the show. Oh well, that's great. If you have not listened to my podcast,

uh,

then do head on down to iag.me/podcast It is the Confident Live Marketing podcast. It comes out every single Friday, it starts off as a live show and then we repurpose it into a podcast.

You can also hear my silly song. So Lesley doesn't know what she's letting herself in for, but I will be singing a little song, for this podcast, because I'm just a complete nut case. But that is it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening, for watching, and until next time, I encourage you to level up your impact, authority, and profits through the power of Confident Live video.

See you soon.